USA vs Belgium – Production cars

"William Byrd" (thedriver) 07/01/2014 at 10:08 • Filed to: usa soccer, world cup, viper, tesla model s, edran, vertigo, gillet, imperia

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Unless you've been living under a carburetor, you probably have heard that the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! round of 16. We missed our opportunity to do a comparison of US and German production cars last week, but this time we've done it! After the jump you'll you'll find a full on consumer review of Belgium's crop of enthusiast cars and see how they compare to some of our best!

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Admittedly, I wasn't that familiar with the cars of Belgium. I hear !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! built the Ford Sierra RS !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! in Belgium back in the 80s. But that's American though, right? I did what every good researcher does. I went to Wikipedia. According to the list of !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , Belgium has (3) remaining automakers, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Its sad that there are only (3) remaining automakers out of (84)! Regardless, we'll analyze their remaining automakers and find out what the Belgians are all about.

Edran

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! was founded in 1984 by !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Their website describes him having a "car-virus" that led to him to produce his own car, the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! I do see signs of sickness.

Image credit: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

With its body built from some combination of fiberglass, carbon-fiber and kevlar, the Spyder features a tubular steel chassis with a built in roll cage. So it's a kit car, you're saying to yourself? Yes, it sort of is. At least it seems to have a lot of the hallmark bits that we would consider a kit car. Curvy, lightweight body. Tube chassis. Interior bits that you could order from a catalog. But that doesn't make it a bad car, right? At 710 kg (1565.28 lbs) it's ridiculously light. Small engine choices should still do the trick with 150hp and 180hp 4-cylinders available.

What's more interesting is their claim to be producing a 2,700 lb. two-seater with…wait for it… 7.2-liter V8 producing 800 hp. Called the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , it lit up the internet when it was announced. In 2006. We're still waiting to see it. As is the world. This could be "vaporware" as the kids are calling it.

Domestic Competitor – Factory Five.

You are probably familiar with their work. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! has carried the kit car torch further than most American companies, producing versions of the legendary !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! Cobra, among others. Sure, that car was based on a European model originally, but nobody can argue the American'ess of it now. Big Ford V8 up front, light body, this is where its at.

Image credit: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Just over 2000 lbs, 400+ hp depending on the engine choice, classic looks, attainable price of $20K (plus some "installation"), this is a hell of a car. So if your "automotive company" is going to build something like a kit car, might as well get a kit car. And ours is better. Goooooooal!!!!!

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SCORE UPDATE

Belgium 0 – 1 USA

After 30 minutes of play, its US and A 1 – Belgium NUL!

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Gillet

Up next a company you might have heard of! At least if you are racing fan or have ever wandered through the automakers in !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Producer of the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! supercar, Gillet was started in 1994 by former racing driver Tony Gillet. At 950kg (2094.39 lbs) the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! is a beast.

Image credit: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Powered by a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! sourced, dry sump 4.2L V8 producing 420hp, the Vertigo dates back to its MK 1 version 1994. This version has been around since 2010 and, while pricing seems to be a little mysterious, we estimate it to be in the $280,000 range. That's a lot of scratch for a car with, well, subjective looks.

Image credit: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

It looks a bit like !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! car doesn't it? And those portholes seem to have been lifted from a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Or a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . But I'm being snarky, I apologize to our Belgian competitors. with a Nomex/Carbon Monoshell and "superposed" wishbones, push-rod with shock-absorbers in the front and Independent "superposed" wishbones in the rear, I bet this thing is a hoot to drive. But how does it do against a domestic rival?

Domestic Competitor – Dodge Viper

If you had to list modern day big engined, light weight(ish) cars, you would most certainly have the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! on your list. Back in the day it was the known around the world as a ridiculous, cartoon-like, V10 powered lunatic. But it's grown up a bit but still wants to kill you.

Image credit: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

If you are on RFD, you are already familiar with the story. 8.4 L V10 producing 640 bhp. It's not nearly as light as the Vertigo, tipping the scales at around 3300 lbs which means the Gillet has a bit of a power to weight ratio advantage. But in the world of sports, you can buy an advantage, and for the $200K+ difference between the Viper and the Gillet, you could damn near turn it into a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Winner. Another one in the back of the net for the US!

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SCORE UPDATE

Belgium 0 – 2 USA

At the half, its 'Murica 2 – Belgium NIL!

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Impéria

Finally, on our last trip around Belgium, we come to Impéria, a name that was revived in 2009 to market a hybrid sports car based on research from the company !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . From what I can tell, they are a Belgian R&D company with designs on building hybrids. They have built everything from an !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! to and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . There's a lot going on there. But we're most interested in the sports car they help build, the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

Image credit: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Just look at that! Powered by a 1.6L 4-cylinder in-line turbo with direct injection, it sports 200hp. Oh, we said it's a hybrid, right? It's also got a 110 kW electric engine with 150 bhp. Weighing it at only 1,200-kg (2,645 lbs) it's quick. How quick? Well it'll be speeding in a 55mph zone in just under 4 seconds. In electric mode. 2013 supposedly marked the first year of production and you can order one on their website. Prices are supposedly $163,300 for the high end version and $124,000 for the more basic version. That's a lot, but it's a pretty cool car. Although I'm not sure you can really buy one. Anyone know? Regardless, it has to compete with another car you can buy different versions of.

Domestic Competitor – Tesla Model S

Did someone ask for innovation? Yep, here comes !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . He'll send you into !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , or he'll !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! The !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Your choice. Opt for the cheaper option, and $69,900 (heh heh). That's for the "60. Keep going to the "85 and that'll be $10K more. The "P85 super duper version is six figures. But it'll do this:

Image credit: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

It's not light. Innovation rarely is on the first go-round. Weighing a hefty 2,108 kg (4,647.3 lb) its all-electric motor produces 310 kW (416 bhp), 600 Nm (443 ftlb). Again, we won't bore you with stats and the history of !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . You want to know who wins the last part of the match!?

Well the Impéria is cool. Damn cool. But it also costs twice as much and I'm not sure it's twice as good. So the last goal is scored by Team USA by the Tesla Model S. I'm not convinced the GP is actually for sale and I can say that at least Tesla has sold 284 of their car. And that's just in Belgium! Header by Musk gets past the Belgian keeper!

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Belgium 0 – 3 USA

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It's a shutout. At least when it comes to cars. Belgium has some really cool offerings, and I will say that when it comes to lightweight options, they are really doing some great stuff. But lightweight is apparently really expensive and I get the sense some of these cars are so light weight they don't exist *cough* Edran Enigma *cough*. Let's just hope our boys can pull out a real live win at 4pm EST today!

duurtlang > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 10:47

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We missed our opportunity to do a comparison of US and German production cars last week

How convenient.

dr861 > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 10:52

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The Imperia would win if it had an LS engine.

ncasolowork2 > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 10:52

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Next up USA vs. Argentina

ncasolowork2 > duurtlang 07/01/2014 at 10:53

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USA would have destroyed Germany. The Germans don't make anything for middle/lower income people.

Paullubbock > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 10:53

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Lemme guess, Belgium has Chinese car designers or teaches car design to the Chinese?

soyjuan > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 10:53

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Ok, so you "forgot" to make a comparison with Germany, home of BMW, audi, Porsche, Volkswagen and Mercedes, but now you casually remember to do it against Belgium, who... Barely makes cars.

As duurtlang puts it, very convenient.

Fezzasus > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 10:54

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Try comparing beers and see how you get on

Fezzasus > ncasolowork2 07/01/2014 at 10:55

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er? VW made THE PEOPLES CAR.

cobleymj > ncasolowork2 07/01/2014 at 10:55

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Aside from the Golf, one of the most popular cars on the planet? Or the Beetle. or the oh wait you're a troll

ncasolowork2 > cobleymj 07/01/2014 at 10:56

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Golf is decent I'd take a Focus ST over a Golf GTi any day. Beetle is Hitler car. VW = catch on fire more than Ferrari. Next

William Byrd > Fezzasus 07/01/2014 at 10:56

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Good call, they have that going for them!

Cars, not so much.

cobleymj > ncasolowork2 07/01/2014 at 10:57

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still not sure if troll or just stupid

William Byrd > soyjuan 07/01/2014 at 10:58

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Hey, I had the idea yesterday. I didn't have a (non German or Belgian) DeLorean to travel back in time with. Otherwise, I would have done this much sooner.

ncasolowork2 > duurtlang 07/01/2014 at 10:59

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Ford Focus ST > VW Golf GTI

Ford Fusion > doesn't have competition

Cadillac CTS-V > Mercedes BMW and Audi

C7 Covette > any boring looking M or S or AMG in the same price range

Winner 'Merica!

William Byrd > Paullubbock 07/01/2014 at 10:59

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Did you read the article...?

duurtlang > ncasolowork2 07/01/2014 at 10:59

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Yes they do. Arguably more so than the Americans. It's just that a large percentage of German cars aren't available in the US. The cheapest VW in Germany starts at €8.4k ($11.5k) before sales tax, and that's just VW.

William Byrd > ncasolowork2 07/01/2014 at 10:59

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Damn right!

soyjuan > ncasolowork2 07/01/2014 at 10:59

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Also forgetting Opel, they're not in their best moment, but that's general motor's fault, however they have la long history of making cars for "lower income people"

Besides, the "luxury brands" have very entry level cars for their local market.
(BMW 116i, Mercedes A200, Audi A1)

ncasolowork2 > cobleymj 07/01/2014 at 11:00

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In all seriousness VW Jetta is a popular car where I live. I have 3 different friends who have had one catch on fire.

William Byrd > ncasolowork2 07/01/2014 at 11:05

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Agreed, most of those on the list wouldn't fair well when it comes to pricing.

William Byrd > Fezzasus 07/01/2014 at 11:05

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They have become more expensive and more like Toyotas over the years. Next?

William Byrd > dr861 07/01/2014 at 11:06

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Damn right. I think its a cool design. Pretty expensive though.

duurtlang > ncasolowork2 07/01/2014 at 11:06

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That's rather... subjective. Besides, regardless of what you think of them, vehicles like the (European) VW Passat and Opel Insignia are direct competitors to the Fusion/Mondeo.

In a Mini; let them mock me as My Mini Countryman is higher than you > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 11:06

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SO MUCH FREEDOM I LIBERATED MY SHIT!

William Byrd > In a Mini; let them mock me as My Mini Countryman is higher than you 07/01/2014 at 11:07

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haha nice.

HiredDriver > ncasolowork2 07/01/2014 at 11:11

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I LOL'd.

FoxFive0 > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 11:12

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Is that the car that looks like a shoe from GT3?

William Byrd > FoxFive0 07/01/2014 at 11:12

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I think so, yeah. There's another pic in the article:

William Byrd > ncasolowork2 07/01/2014 at 11:13

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This

KirkyV > ncasolowork2 07/01/2014 at 11:16

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I'd happily have a Focus ST over a Golf GTI, or a Fiesta ST over a Polo GTI... But, then, I kind of see all of the above cars as German. I mean, if Opel count as a German manufacturer, then Ford of Europe probably should as well.

ncasolowork2 > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 11:16

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Also Ford F150 > entire world

David E. Davis > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 11:17

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Based on this abortion alone, we do.

Dutch Bastard > ncasolowork2 07/01/2014 at 11:17

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LOL! yes they do.

R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 11:19

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I would only drive this while naked. That's not a diss to the car, I just only look good naked. Clothing looks wrong on me.

ncasolowork2 > Dutch Bastard 07/01/2014 at 11:19

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Yes and the cars suck and catch on fire. It should have said "don't make anything good" for middle/lower income people.

William Byrd > R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet 07/01/2014 at 11:21

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Well in that car the world could see it all! Let your freak flag fly!

R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 11:23

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Pull up at stoplight midday, tanned skin slightly glistening with a light coat of sweat, sunglassses on, white teeth shining, and don't forget the raging hard on from that monster, devilish V8

R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 11:24

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I'm going to be thinking of a way to make this a meme all day.

JimEmery > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 11:26

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Too bad Minerva isn't still in production:

RX > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 11:26

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This would be a closer match if it were beer.

cobleymj > ncasolowork2 07/01/2014 at 11:27

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There is a reason that noone buys Cadillacs and Corvettes outside of the US

ncasolowork2 > cobleymj 07/01/2014 at 11:28

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Because they don't like something that actually looks good. They only want boring.

Babz > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 11:28

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BREAKING NEWS

An 11 million people country smaller than the state of Maryland makes less cars than the second biggest car producing country !

Fucking brilliant.

soyjuan > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 11:30

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Don't worry there, We'll have Germany vs France soon.

HarryMosher > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 11:30

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I'll leave this here though. Gillet Vertigo racing has scored a couple of nice podium in some competition (3rd of its category in the 24hours of spa in early 2000's)

mistic192 > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 11:30

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At least we used to make great cars... Like the "Jamais Contente" ( first car to break the 60mph speed-barrier ) :-)

spin cycle > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 11:31

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Starting the BUT AT LEAST WE STILL HAVE BETTER CARS NYEENER NYEENER ALSO FREEDOM thing early, I see.

472CID > duurtlang 07/01/2014 at 11:32

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Oh boy, this opens up a great big can of worms. *grabs popcorn*

66671 - 200 [METRIC] my dash > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 11:33

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Oh wow the Imperia is gorgeous.

duurtlang > 472CID 07/01/2014 at 11:35

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I... should've seen this coming I guess. That said, it seems it's just one person who's trying to troll that's rustling the jimmies.

MaWeiTao > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 11:35

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I love the wheels on the Imperia; that's about the only thing I like on that car.

Built BMW Tough > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 11:36

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This car was (possibly still is) one of the fastest accelerating cars in history. I love the way it looks.

duurtlang > soyjuan 07/01/2014 at 11:37

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That's an interesting one. Just like US - France would be interesting, to me. I think Germany beats France, but France beats the US. But that's just my opinion.

Pdexter > ncasolowork2 07/01/2014 at 11:37

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I'm still not sure if you truly are serious or a troll.

Micro-dosing Gawker's Tears > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 11:39

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Wow, I never thought I would say this but, the American ones are not fuck ugly!

Spoon II > Pdexter 07/01/2014 at 11:40

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No way to be sure.

Pdexter > soyjuan 07/01/2014 at 11:42

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Outside the obvious VW large offering, Audi, BMW and Merc capture the whole price spectrum globally, outside of the very low end of Ford Fiesta, VW Polo.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > ncasolowork2 07/01/2014 at 11:46

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Uh....no...?

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > ncasolowork2 07/01/2014 at 11:47

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Never in my life seen or heard of a VW on fire, so....

Sheriff Of American Douchetown > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 11:55

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Let's face it. USA got a gift from Ghana. That opening goal changed the entire dynamic of the game and Ghana never recovered. USA's best game was against Germany. I don't see them beating Belgium, I just don't. IF they somehow pull it off, they better get Argentina. Argentina hasn't played a real good team yet and they haven't looked impressive. I hope the USA prevails, but I won't be surprised if they don't.

472CID > duurtlang 07/01/2014 at 11:56

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Yeah it'd be a fun topic to debate, but I can't see it not turning in to a flame war.

RightFootDown > Built BMW Tough 07/01/2014 at 12:00

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It's like a stubby MB SLS out back.

cobleymj > ncasolowork2 07/01/2014 at 12:01

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Cadillacs are a lot of things. 'Good-looking' is not one of them. Maybe if one likes novelty plastic testicles and other assorted tack, I wouldnt know how that state of mind works. Awful styling. Not to mention that modern cadillacs are so painfully trying (and failing) to play off European styling in comparison to their predecessors

Paullubbock > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 12:02

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Yes but it doesn't change the obvious does it?

William Byrd > HarryMosher 07/01/2014 at 12:03

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No doubt, they made some good race cars back in the day! They even won G2 during the FIA GT Championship in the late 2000s.

William Byrd > Paullubbock 07/01/2014 at 12:04

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If I knew what the obvious was, perhaps...

Does that make it not obvious? lol

William Byrd > Micro-dosing Gawker's Tears 07/01/2014 at 12:04

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We'll take it! :thumbsup:

William Byrd > 66671 - 200 [METRIC] my dash 07/01/2014 at 12:06

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Pretty cool isn't it? Like some sort of modern hot rod.

carom > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 12:09

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Belgium beats the US in terms of waffles, beer, chocolate and fries.

Not bad for a country with the same population as Ohio.

William Byrd > Babz 07/01/2014 at 12:14

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Yeah but it's BARELY smaller than MD and has twice as many people. :)

Relax, it's all in good fun. If they win, you can say a country smaller than MD beat the US. Not sure why you would if you're not Belgian, but whatever floats your boat.

William Byrd > mistic192 07/01/2014 at 12:15

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I was pretty impressed that there were that many automakers in Belgium's history. What happened to them all? Economic downturn, etc.?

Stephen > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 12:15

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USA vs Belgium in a car contest? C'mon, this is like the 1-16 game in the NCAA tournament. USA every day.

Now pick a more interesting car matchup, such as USA vs France or Germany vs Japan.

JustDoALittleResearchFirst > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 12:15

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What was the point of this "comparison"?

William Byrd > spin cycle 07/01/2014 at 12:16

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Well if you mean 5 hours before the game, then yes. Not sure that's technically "early" though. :)

William Byrd > JustDoALittleResearchFirst 07/01/2014 at 12:16

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Just for fun. It's the internet, don't take it too seriously.

Doug Nash > ncasolowork2 07/01/2014 at 12:37

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Nice. You followed up your trollish first post, with an even less-coherent and poorly written second. That's a red card for you.

ncasolowork2 > Doug Nash 07/01/2014 at 12:42

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You're just jealous because 'Merica is awesome.

Ratchet when he's all hopped up on synthetic energon > Fezzasus 07/01/2014 at 12:45

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You were saying?

Speca Kelly > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 12:45

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The US has produced some of the most renowned brands of cars in the world such as Ford , Chevrolet , Cadillac , Dodge and Jeep . Last year, the average price of a brand new car in America was reported to be $31, 252.

Izaerian > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 12:53

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God the Gillet is just pure cock and balls. And now that I have put it that way it would be very awkward to say I really want one wouldn't it?

William Byrd > Izaerian 07/01/2014 at 12:58

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Yeah you can't really take that back. But it's pretty appropriate, it's a pretty bonkers car. Supposedly 0-60 in 3.3 seconds. That's pretty crazy.

William Byrd > Stephen 07/01/2014 at 13:02

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We're not playing France and I wouldn't necessarily care who won between Germany and Japan. haha

pip bip - choose Corrour > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 13:04

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Belgium wins!

William Byrd > pip bip - choose Corrour 07/01/2014 at 13:05

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Hey, write your own comparison! :)

Doug Nash > ncasolowork2 07/01/2014 at 13:35

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I'm American. But you need to up your game, for the sake of our country, if you're going to post here. You're not advancing your arguments with any level of intelligence.

Motonaut > Fezzasus 07/01/2014 at 13:39

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I'm sorry but the US has some fantastic microbrews. I don't mean to say they are necessarily better, but if you want to compare Budweiser to Wesvleteren, we can play the same game.

leathermansouth > Doug Nash 07/01/2014 at 14:10

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Amen! You took the words right out of my mouth. Now all that's left for me to do is commend you for doing so.

leathermansouth > Fezzasus 07/01/2014 at 14:12

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I'm American, and I admit I am an enormous fan of Belgian beers. That said, the microbrewery game in the U.S. has blown up over the past couple of decades - we make some really top notch beers, its just unlikely you've heard of them/have access to them. Big box-brand American beers, well, I'll give you that.

Your point, however, is still arguable from your perspective. Guess we should leave that to a beer blog, and not a car one, no?

deus ex plaustra > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 14:20

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"...here comes Elon Musk. He'll send you into space, or he'll build you an electric car."

This could be their new sales pitch with a little tweaking.

"...here comes Elon Musk! Buy an electric car, or he'll send you into space!"

Mr Ordinary > ncasolowork2 07/01/2014 at 14:22

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You score points for obvious trolling, nobody could be that daft on here! You lose points for running out of steam after the 2nd post.

Fezzasus > leathermansouth 07/01/2014 at 14:27

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TBH, I didn't really intend to start a proper debate, but it's no more daft than using cars to decide soccer/football.

Anyway, everywhere does great beer, it's just how far you need to look for it. I would say generally (and lets' face it, most views are generalisations) the large brand beer you can walk into any shop in belgium and get is better than the stuff you can find in the US.

That won't stop me from ordering US microbrewery beer imported into the UK at my favourite burger place.

Awesomooo > ncasolowork2 07/01/2014 at 15:03

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Opel and VW

Textured Soy Protein > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 15:03

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Basically, this match is a Ford Sierra RS Cosworth. Built in Genk, Belgium.

Or, a Ford Sierra RS Cosworth 4x4.

FrancoisVDS > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 15:51

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Tony Gillet is my godfather. My parents each had one back in the 90s and they were already insane to drive then. The Vertigo ,5 is literally a racecar for the street; with a roll cage, a sequential, noisy as hell, instant acceleration if you even breathe on the pedal, etc. My godfather once took me for a ride – he's 60-something now but used to be a hillclimb racing champion. Given the fact we spent half of the 'hot lap' of the industrial area drifting, I can guarantee it beats the viper at its own game.

leathermansouth > Fezzasus 07/01/2014 at 17:03

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Well we're not actually using cars to decide football/soccer - we'll win this match on a tidal wave of national pride alone (hah...).

You're right though about the beer generally speaking in Belgium vs. the U.S...our big brands are, unfortunately, usually extremely underwhelming.

William Byrd > FrancoisVDS 07/01/2014 at 17:33

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That's awesome!!!

Audistein > ncasolowork2 07/01/2014 at 20:50

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VW and Opel along with lots of cheap(ish) BMWs, Audis, and Mercedes (Smart included) available in Europe.

soyjuan > duurtlang 07/01/2014 at 21:14

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I also think Germany has objectively better cars.
But most of them are not as interesting as the normal french car, french econoboxes are quirky and usually fun (when they are working, of course)

Maxaxle > William Byrd 07/01/2014 at 22:38

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So much "whaaat" in one rear end.

rtv190 > William Byrd 07/02/2014 at 00:58

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i still prefer the Gillet over the Viper